Logos on Spasm: Cypherpunk Lucid Dream

Logos is Everest, Spasm is Sun.
Logos is the mountain, the destination,
Spasm is the light that shines the path.


Your stack is pure digital resistance: decentralized, self-custody, borderless. You repurposed unfused bank cards into hardware wallets, spun up a p2p network and enhanced it with storage nodes, developed a very innovative reputation-based zk way to fund ephemeral addresses and other fascinated tech with a super-app that ties it all together. Great stack, great vision. But there’s one missing piece: an agnostic protocol built for truly open ecosystems. Something that can connect your vision to the rest of the world. Not another standard like ActivityPub or Nostr, but a protocol that encapsulates other standards. Basically, an ultimate wrapper. The endgame of protocols. The final boss of all bosses. The holy grail…

Okay, I’m being a bit dramatic, but yeah, Spasm is the endgame of social media, and the endgame of protocols, and the endgame of web3. I’ve been following the Logos ecosystem for a long time, and some of you have been tracking Spasm for years. We thought about integrating Waku into Spasm forums, and you though about integrating Spasm. Some of you have already contributed to the Spasm ecosystem - like Jarrad, who hinted at encapsulating JSON key-value pairs a few years ago, which eventually led to Spasm V2. On our side, a Spasm-native community called zkpunks (about 50 based devs and cypherpunks, mostly on Session) has been exploring the Status ecosystem for the last few months, testing the app, suggesting improvements and reporting issues.

In other words, we meet, we talk, we are in the same chats, but we’re not fighting side by side yet. Let’s change that. Let’s work on actual integration.

Stage 1. Test-pilot

After reviewing your stack, I found the perfect place to start: your forums. Right now, they’re stuck in walled gardens powered by outdated tech from the dinosaur ear with typical account-based slave tech architecture, which demands emails with passwords and confines conversations within one website. It chokes growth and prevents your community from spreading across the federated web. Who wants to sign up on another outdated forum with an email address and password, and then visit it daily just to check updates? Barely anyone. You can temporary pump engagement with money, but you’ll never get the network effect you want. Let’s fix that first and expand from there.

I saw that you have a Discourse-powered forum for Logos and Status app, but none for other projects. So, here’s my pitch: run a Spasm-powered test-pilot forum for for one of your projects like Status Network, Keycard, Nimbus, Logos Messaging, or Logos Circles.

Here is a demo instance redesigned with your branding. I also added a few posts from Status blog and synced a few Status-related messages from zkpunks and other instances. The feed in the demo instance is a mess lol, but you can get the gist. I also made the owner of 0xcyp.eth an admin, so he can delete posts and change values in the admin web panel after connecting a wallet.

Running a Spasm forum is pretty straightforward if you have basic sysadmin skills. Just set up a database, then run the frontend and backend (usually with pm2). There are even bash scripts for the automated full server setup from scratch. And if you want Docker or an Ansible Playbook, I can have that ready in a week.

Once the forum is live, users can engage with your content by directly signing messages with their private keys in a truly self-custodial way, using the most advanced and agnostic protocol for decentralized social media. Messages can be signed via web3 browser extensions or web3 browsers like the one built into Status app. The messages can then propagate through the Spasm network, and through the Nostr network, if multi-signed. We can also discuss integration of Logos Messaging into Spasm forums to bridge with apps that utilize your p2p network. No emails, no accounts, no walled gardens - just pure borderless interaction. Let’s make it happen.

Stage 2. Logos Network

The second stage includes running Spasm-powered forums for other Logos products and federating them together, building a strong digital foundation for parallel societies alongside with other Logos tech stack.

At the moment, each Logos forum is an isolated silo, so the network effect doesn’t compound. Spasm provides a better alternative. Imagine that all projects from your tech stack and Logos Circles have dedicated forums, but they are all interconnected through highly customizable federation. On top of that, your cluster - or Logos Network - is interconnected with other Spasm-powered forums, creating highly decentralized and censorship-resistant web of freedom seekers.

Alternatively, you can just run one big forum for all Logos products. At the moment, Spasm forums only have categories, but I can obviously add subcategories since they are included in the Spasm event. That way, each product will have its own category like Status L2, Logos Circles, Logos Messaging, Keycard, Nimbus, etc., and then use subcategories like Feedback, Governance, Scaling, Privacy, Bugs, Meetups, etc.

Stage 3. More tech integration

1. Logos Messaging and Spasm

Another interesting collaboration path is integration of Logos Messaging into Spasm forums. We will have to think about the architecture and use cases, but I have some ideas in mind.

2. Status and Spasm

When it comes to Status app, there are a few integrations that immediately come to mind:

  • Firstly, Status web3 browser can properly display Spasm events instead of just showing a JSON object as a plain-text string. I’m planning on writing ERC for that.

  • Secondly, we can implement bridging of messages from Status to Spasm forums. For example, a person submits an important message into Logos Circles channel chat in Logos community on Status app, that message is then encapsulated with Spasm and bridged to Logos Circles forum, from where it can propagate to Nomos, Status, Logos, and other forums, and finally all across the Spasm network, assuming that the message is of significant importance.

  • Thirdly, if Status app adds support for Spasm events, we can implement bridging of messages from Spasm to Status.

About Spasm

To start your Spasm journey you can watch this short video with the ethos.

Next, you can watch another video explaining why direct signing of events is the future and why “Sign-in with Ethereum” is slave tech dressed in web3 clothing.

After that, you can visit the official website and go through pages in the navigation bar.

Then, you can check out other Spasm instances like zkpunks.

You can also check docs, npm and git. Unfortunately, we still use github, which is the only slave tech in our infrastructure, but we are planning on migrating to either self-hosted or p2p git.

Finally, try submitting posts/comments/reactions with your Ethereum wallet using either Status web3 browser or regular web3 browser extensions on some instances like demo, zkpunks, dark.vegas, monero.top and others.

Contacts

Status: zQ3shNimbSVeUwb5HX6GYxxeC3XR4Yoy1a4ekZWVeA3f4TkNd
Session: degenrocket


Unplug from slave tech! :love_you_gesture:

5 Likes

Hey @degenrocket, thank you so much for this.

This looks EPIC and my gut reaction is yes, yes, let’s just do it. Let’s at least move the forums :slight_smile:

But unfortunately/luckily I’m not the only one making decisions here. I can only get back to you on the forum side of things and I agree that it would be great to move away from dinosaur web2 tech. But I think this will take some time. And we’ll also need to make sure it’s still easy to onboard people who are not familiar (yet) with web3 tech (eg some of our Circle participants).

But just this quick message to let you know we are very much listening to feedback and proposals, so thank you so much for this one. :folded_hands:

Right now we are doing a LOT of consolidation within Logos so you’ll see more changes in the coming weeks and months, I just made a few today to make this very forum a bit more readable.

I hope in the near future we can merge some of our forums, pros and cons about this are currently being discussed I’ve seen. I think the first step will be to do this on Discourse. A next step will be to consider moving away from this tech altogether.

I’ve heard we are working on drafting the requirements for a decentralized alternative where we move away from the browser entirely but I think at some point an official RFP will come out for this and hope we can get back to you on this then!

These are just some personal thoughts ofc, hope other contributors will share theirs!

cc @fryorcraken

2 Likes

@krrisis yeah, I understand, you have a big company with many departments working on different products, so things take time. Let me provide you with some details to ease the decision process.

Logos Circles on Spasm

By the way, appreciate your insights, you gave me some good ideas.

And we’ll also need to make sure it’s still easy to onboard people who are not familiar (yet) with web3 tech (eg some of our Circle participants).

After reading this, I realized that running a test-pilot for Logos Circles makes even more sense than for Status Network. Let me explain.

Bitcoin has been around for 17 years now, Ethereum for over a decade, and the DeFi Summer was in 2020. Thus, it’s not a new tech at all, so if some of Circle participants are not familiar with the web3 tech yet, then they are at least half a decade or even a decade too late. In other words, the intervention is urgently needed lol.

Now think about it, what can be better than Spasm for onboarding people to web3?

When it comes to onboarding folks to web3 and DeFi, Spasm is a game changer because messages can be signed for free.

Typically, funding a wallet is a major roadblock because it requires the usage of either centralized KYCed on-ramps, or p2p markets which most people don’t understand. Either way, there is almost no privacy even with zk solutions like zkp2p. And if you used more private options like Haveno or OpenMonero, then you have to bridge XMR to ETH via Tor-friendly aggregators like Trocador. It’s just overly complicated for most people to consider.

Spasm: the easiest route to web3

Enter Spasm. For those hesitant about buying crypto, they can simply use Spasm! Once your Circle participants are onboard with Status, they can explore your Spasm-powered Logos forum straight from Status’s web3 browser. And then they can sign messages like they would any DeFi transaction.

This experience is incredibly intuitive and lets users grasp the essence of web3 without spending a dime. They’ll quickly learn how private keys work and experience the idea of signing messages firsthand. It’s a straightforward approach to onboarding - gasless web3 social media at its finest.

Any other “decentralized” social media solution requires a user to either download some native app, or go through some sign up process, or fund a wallet to pay for gas fees, or at least sign another key that will be then used to sign messages. Spasm doesn’t require any of that bs. You just connect a wallet and sign a message. That’s it. That’s the easiest way to onboard anybody to web3.

And then, after a few weeks or months of signing messages on your forum using Status web3 browser, users might be ready for the next step - funding a wallet and trying DeFi.

In fact, that was an exact vision that I shared with Jarrad a few years ago. That time Status was the only open source app with a web3 browser on F-Droid, so I envisioned Status to potentially become a crucial part in Spasm adoption. However, the web3 browser was later removed from Status app, but I’m excited to see it back on desktop, and I hope that it’s coming back to mobiles soon.

Bridging web2 and web3

Additionally, web2-savvy users with RSS apps can easily follow your Spasm-powered forum with RSS feeds. Did you know that Discourse also provides RSS feeds? You probably didn’t, because Discourse architecture is a typical web2 silo.

Spasm, on other hand, is agnostic, so it allows people to interact with the ecosystem not only via various modern apps like web3 browser extensions, Nostr apps, and super-apps like Status, but also via outdated apps like RSS readers.

Besides, Spasm generates much better RSS feeds than Discourse with much more filters. For example, try these very different feeds:

zkpunks - all “rising” events, best viewed with Capy Reader, but works with any RSS app.

Dark Vegas Tales - hardcore lunarpunk shit talking, works best with podcast apps like AntennaPod.

Ethos

Logos Circles and Spasm have very similar ethos, because Spasm is all about the freedom of association and empowering local communities with the most advanced censorship-resistant tools to unplug from slave tech, self-organize and join a network of free people by building bridges with other similar communities like Prospera, Bitcoin Jungle, Liberland, Verdis, all sorts of pop-up cities, communities in Antarctica, ocean, and eventually, in space.

Crashing slave tech

Slave tech is strong and onboarding users to freedom tech is a very hard task, but integrating Logos with Spasm could mark a significant victory.

2 Likes